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Timesoftrouble
(deleted account)

HELL?


Fellowship and discussions with love and a positive attitude are just one of God’s many blessings that only those with the love of Christ within their hearts can participate in. Is it not a true Christian belief that if we are not saved by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, we will go to hell and burn for eternity in screeching agony? Hmmm, just out of curiosity, why does Romans 6:23 say that the wages of sin is death? When one is dead its hard to be burning in hell, is it not?  We both love our Lord, therefore we believe that He and His words are nothing but pure truth, right? Then we must believe that life is life, and death is death.
Prior to the coming of Christ 2000 years ago, there was no Christ to accept and be saved by. Is not God love? Yes He is. So would a God of love put the billions of people into an everlasting burning hell just because there was no way to be saved?
“Put not your trust…in the son of man…His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” Is that not death in Psalm 146:3-4?
“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing…” (Ecclesiastes 9:5)
“For that which befalls the sons of men befalls beasts; even one thing befalls them: as the one dies, so dies the other; yes, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast…All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again” (3:19-20)  Is that eternal burning?

“The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.” Death is silence Psalms 115:17.                                     Is silence screaming in pain?

“For in death there is no remembrance of You: In the grave who shall give You thanks?” (v 6:5)

Here is why the dead have no remembrance of God in the grave.
Jesus said, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation [Greek: judgment]” (John 5:28-29)

HEAVEN

My few, very few, words on hell were only truth. So now I will just add a few more on heaven.
Have you ever read the sermon on the mount? Christ never once says the word heaven, however what He does say is “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.” Matthew 5:5

Because our Lord knows the truth of scriptures so well, when He said that He was quoting Psalms 37:11.

In Revelation 5:10 the inspired words of John read. . .”And has made them [saints] unto our God kings and priests: and they [the saints] shall reign on the earth.” Is that the heaven where the saved go?

Look at the words of God in Daniel 7:18 which say. . . “But the saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even forever and ever” 

Saints of the Most High are Firstfruits in Luke 12:32

Now lets read verse 22 and 27 “…and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.” “And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.”

Where is Gods kingdom?

On Planet Earth, under the heavens. . .


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974 helpful answers

Be Blessed.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (Love), I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vauneth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seekth not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is (Love) charity.  

My fellow Yeddites, study, study, study, your bibles to show thyself approved. More now than ever we need to study!........ Be Blessed

Posted 2009-03-20T06:40:46Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question
 
974 helpful answers

Be Blessed.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (Love), I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vauneth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seekth not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is (Love) charity.  

Matthew 24:24-25 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- READ YOUR BIBLES PEOPLE, ASK GOD FOR UNDERSTANDING!!!!!!!!!

Posted 2009-03-20T07:00:45Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question
 
95 helpful answers

Mat. 6:33 "Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God and All these things Shall Be Added to You!!!

False "Premisses" give "False Conclusions" like this Question seeks to implant! There was Salvation in the "O.T." where "BELIEF / FAITH" in Gods' Promise of a "Savior", "Looking Forward" to the "Savior" is the Same "Belief / Faith" we utilize as we "Look Back" to the "Cross of Sacrifice" having been "Fulfilled" in Him!!! Here's the Doctrine on it.   Enjoy!!!   John

DOCTRINE OF SALVATION IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

A.  Definition and Description.
    1.  Salvation is instant adjustment to the justice of God through faith
in Christ.  Jesus Christ bore our sins and the justice of God judged those
sins and was satisfied, 1 Pet 2:24; 2 Cor 5:21.  When we believe in Christ,
the justice of God is free to save us.
    2.  The Gospel is the information provided whereby we make that instant
adjustment to the justice of God.
    3.  In the Old Testament when you believed, you received the perfect
righteousness of God, eternal life, and God the Holy Spirit regenerated you.
In the Church Age you receive these things and much more.
    4.  While Jesus Christ had not yet died on the cross in Old Testament
times, His efficacious sacrifice was certain as a part of the divine
decrees.  This freed the justice of God to save anyone who believed in Old
Testament times.  On the basis of the decrees anyone in Old Testament times
could be saved by believing in Christ by any of the various ways Christ was
revealed.

B.  The First Statement of the Gospel, Gen 3:15.
    1.  At the time of man's fall, the promise of salvation was first
given.  Man rejected God's order not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of
good and evil.  The knowledge of good and evil was not necessary for
relationship with God.  Morality was not an issue, but rather rejection of
God's command.
    2.  This resulted in instant adjustment to spiritual death.  The sin
was negative volition, which allowed Satan to become the ruler of the world,
and put man under spiritual death.  Personal sin caused the existence of the
old sin nature, which cancelled out the human spirit, causing man to become
dichotomous.
    3.  We are born sinners because of the imputation of Adam's sin and the
existence of the old sin nature in the cell structure of the body.  We are
not sinners because we sin, but because we are born.  Adam chose for the
entire human race that we would be born sinners.
    4.  We start with the old sin nature and go to personal sin, in
contrast to Adam.  The solution to Adam's problem was God becoming the
God-man.
    5.  The woman sinned in ignorance, while Adam knew exactly what he was
doing, but both are guilty because both used their volition to sin.
    6.  The virgin birth was essential so that Christ could be born as a
man without the genetically formed old sin nature, and therefore without the
imputation of Adam's original sin.  Christ lived a sinless life in the
prototype divine dynasphere under the indwelling and filling of the Holy
Spirit.  Thus being without sin, He was qualified to go to the cross and be
judged for our sins.
    7.  The justice of God found a way to save sinful man, Gen 3:15.
Christ is "the seed of the woman."  The "crushing of Satan's head" is His
victory at the Second Advent.  The "crushing of Christ's heel" is His
suffering on the cross prior to being judged for our sins.
    8.  In Gen 3:20-21, man responded to the Gospel.

C.  The Pattern of Salvation in the Old Testament, Gen 15:6.
    1.  The pattern is exactly the same as New Testament salvation.
    2.  Abraham believed in Christ and God the Father imputed perfect
righteousness to him.  When we adjust to the justice of God, we receive
God's perfect righteousness.  You cannot improve God's perfect
righteousness, compromise it, or destroy it.  All believers have it.
    3.  Rom 4:1-5 and Gal 3:6 teach the same concept as Gen 15:6.
    4.  The justice of God is not free to save man based on any works or
ritual.  Arrogant legalists always boast about how great they are.  The more
you work for salvation, the farther away you get.
    5.  The pattern for salvation adjustment to the justice of God has
always been the same:  faith in Jesus Christ which frees the justice of God
to give instant and eternal salvation.
    6.  In the Old Testament, the judgment of Jesus Christ on the cross was
just as real as it is to us retrospectively.
    7.  No matter how Christ was revealed in the Old Testament, the non-
meritorious expression of faith in Christ resulted in eternal salvation.

D.  How was the Gospel presented?
    1.  It was presented directly in theology by direct doctrinal teaching,
Isa 53:1, 4-6, 10-12.
        a.  Verse 4 states directly that Christ carried the guilt of our
sin.  Christ was judged in His spiritual death, not His physical death.
        b.  Verse 11 states that justice is satisfied by the judgment of
sin in Christ.
    2.  It was presented in the Levitical offerings.
    3.  It was presented in the Temple worship.

E.  The Levitical offerings reveal the Gospel.
    1.  This is witnessing by ritual.  The ritual is found in three
offerings.
        a.  In Lev 1, the burnt offering was propitiation with emphasis on
the work of Christ, indicating that Christ had to bear our sins in order for
the justice of God to be free to give us salvation.
        b.  In Lev 2, the food offering emphasizes the person of Christ
propitiating the Father's justice.
        c.  In Lev 3, the peace offering represented the work of Christ on
the cross which removes the barrier between God and man, thus making it
possible for the justice of God to give man eternal life.
    2.  The remaining offerings in Lev 4-5, the sin offering and the
trespass offering, were for sins of cognizance and sins of ignorance.  If
you feel sorry for sins or "try to make it up to God" through penitence,
then the justice of God isn't free to forgive you.  You do not rebound
unknown sins when you learn at a later date that what you did was a sin.
That is blasphemy, because the justice of God is fair and forgives unknown
sins when you acknowledge your known sins.

F.  The Tabernacle reveals the Gospel, Rom 3:24-26.
    1.  "Receiving justification gratuitously by His grace through the
redemption of the one who is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has predetermined the
mercy seat [the place of propitiation], through faith by means of His blood,
for a demonstration of His justice, because of the passing over of the
previously committed sins by the clemency of God."
    2.  Christ is the mercy seat.  Sin is inside the mercy seat.  The
righteousness and justice of God see the blood on the mercy seat, which
represents the work of Christ on the cross, and are satisfied.
    3.  Judgment was delayed on all sins until the cross.  This was true
for all sins past, present and future.
    4.  Verse 26 teaches that God must be just and the justifier, so that
God is not compromised when He saves and blesses man.

G.  Positive volition existed in Old Testament times.
    1.  Ex 33:7, "Everyone who sought the Lord."
    2.  Isa 55:6, "Seek the Lord while He may be found."
    3.  Where positive volition exists, there must be salvation available.
God is fair and just, therefore He provides the information necessary to be
saved wherever positive volition exists.

H.  Job gave testimony to the salvation principle of the Old Testament, Job
19:23-27.

I.  Gentiles responded to the Gospel in Old Testament times.
    1.  The Assyrians responded to the Gospel, Mt 12:41; Lk 11:32.
    2.  Jonah's revival, Jonah 3.
    3.  Nebuchadnezzar was a believer, Dan 4:30-37.

Posted 2009-03-23T00:12:58Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question
Helpful?(1)
Rated as Best Answer
 
Timesoftrouble
(deleted account)

Thank you for your very well put reply on salvation because I can never learn enough.

Posted 2009-03-23T03:46:22Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question
 
Ahau Kin
(deleted account)

The poisonous dogma of hell and eternal torture has put more people off religion than any other aspect of religion.

Exactly how do I merit infinite torture for a limited amount of wrongdoing in a mortal lifetime? This is just? This is a loving creator? Or a sadistic, bloodthirsty tyrant who enjoys creating people so he can toss them on the barbecue grill?

Then we get into loads of ridiculous rules to avoid offending such a just being: don't eat pork, or don't eat meat on Friday, or don't wear this or that, or how exactly you should slaughter a goat etc. ad nauseum.

But of course its OK to kill other humans if he says so. Genocide, homicide, incest, adultery; all moral lessons taught in the OT which are perfectly good things to do if god says so.

Don't all these silly rules just constitute trying to get into heaven through WORKS, which your own sacred itchings say isn't possible?

I don't get my moral standards from some bloodthirsty, psychopathic tribal god that stalked the deserts of the Middle East millenia ago. Morality is natural to the human condition inasmuch as we are a social species and must needs get along with each other.

I should bow down to this being who enjoys the stench of dead, burning flesh; the bright spray of blood as I cut the throat of the goat?

 

Posted 2009-03-27T02:35:05Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question
Ahau Kin was invited by Yedda to answer this question.

 
95 helpful answers

Mat. 6:33 "Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God and All these things Shall Be Added to You!!!

Great Point, that's why my "Signature" is Mat.6:33 "Seek ye first the "Kingdom of God" & all these things shall be added unto You!!!"   John

Posted 2009-03-27T03:21:45Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question
 
95 helpful answers

Mat. 6:33 "Seek Ye First the Kingdom of God and All these things Shall Be Added to You!!!

There really are Answers to Topics like this if one is not close minded & too lazy to Dig out the Truth. It's so much easier to Remain Ignorant & just "Beat the Drum" making Loud Irrational Accusations without Facts. So that U be no longer Ignorant I enclose a bit about Gods' Love & Justice U chose to Impugn.   Enjoy!!!   John

DIVINE JUSTICE CAN ONLY BLESS DIVINE RIGHTEOUSNESS

A.  The integrity of God is composed of His perfect justice and
righteousness.
    1.  Justice is the guardian of all the divine attributes, and at the
same time is the point of contact for all the human race.
    2.  God's perfect righteousness is the guardian of divine justice,
while justice is the guardian of all other divine attributes.

B.  There must be no compromise of attributes in the function of the essence
of God.
    1.  Therefore, righteousness demands righteousness and justice demands
justice in the function of divine integrity toward man.  This is true in the
function of divine integrity toward man as well as the function of divine
integrity toward the other divine attributes.
    2.  To avoid compromise and inconsistency, a principle of doctrine
becomes axiomatic:  divine justice can only bless divine righteousness.

C.  Perfect righteousness is the principle of divine integrity, while
justice is the function of divine integrity.  Divine righteousness gives the
orders which justice carries out.

D.  God cannot accept anything less than perfect righteousness, and He
cannot bless anything less than perfect righteousness.
    1.  Therefore, the justice of God is only free to bless where God's
perfect righteousness resides.  This is why divine righteousness is the
first thing we receive at salvation.  The justice of God as the source of
all direct blessing from God is then free to function toward us without
compromise of His integrity.
    2.  The imputation of divine righteousness is necessary for any
blessing from the justice of God.  Imputed righteousness is the potential
for all future blessing.
    3.  However, blessing without capacity means misery.  Therefore, you
need maximum Bible doctrine in your soul to have capacity.  God only blesses
where capacity precedes.
    4.  Potential (divine righteousness imputed) plus Capacity (Bible
doctrine in the soul) equals Reality (blessings at spiritual maturity).  

E.  God loves His own integrity.  Perfect love only goes to perfect objects.
God is able to love the imperfect believer because He imputes His own
righteousness to him at salvation.

F.  Therefore, what righteousness rejects, justice condemns.  What
righteousness accepts, justice blesses.  This is demanded by God's
righteousness.  This fulfills the principle that what justice administers
what the righteousness of God demands.

G.  At salvation, man receives divine righteousness by a judicial imputation
and resultant justification.
    1.  God recognizes His righteousness wherever it is found, even in you,
and in those believers you hate and malign as well.
    2.  Justification is simply God recognizing His own imputation of
divine righteousness to us at salvation.
    3.  Justification logically precedes all other blessings from the
justice of God.
    4.  Therefore, imputed divine righteousness and resultant justification
is the primary potential for all blessings from the justice of God.

H.  Therefore, imputed divine righteousness is the potential for blessing.
    1.  Bible doctrine perceived through operation Z is the capacity for
that blessing, and cracking the maturity barrier is the reality of that
blessing.
    2.  Potential one plus capacity equals reality of blessing in time.
    3.  Matt 6:33, "But seek first the kingdom [salvation] and His
righteousness; then all these things shall be provided for you."
    4.  God is not compromised when He blesses us, because grace is the
policy of blessing.  Because righteousness demands righteousness, God cannot
save anyone on the basis of emotion or because He feels sorry for them.
This would make Christ's work non-efficacious.  Blessing from God has
security and capacity.


Posted 2009-03-27T03:47:35Z
Timesoftrouble's (deleted account) question

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